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2026 Celebrating 250 years of America. Is it a Christian Nation?
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Welcome back to Be Not Deceived. I'm so glad you have joined us today and we are in a log cabin in Montana and what a great setting we are celebrating this year in 2026. July 4 was our two hundred and fifty year anniversary to talk about biblical perspective of America and also some of our history. Today is gonna be the first part of this series and I have my guest here, Mark Dinsmore. He is an author. He is a biblical researcher and a very dear friend of ours. So welcome, and I'm so glad you're joining us today. Thank you, Vickie. It really is a pleasure. Yeah. A delight to be here in Montana just to see God's glorious creation around us. And so thank you to our hosts and thank you to our friends and this opportunity to speak from God's Word and to review some of the fascinating facts and details about our nation. Right? I'm so interested. I know we were talking earlier about the Mayflower Compact and what that was about. And and so we're gonna share all these different things in the constitution. And also some of our Christian well known Christians that are in our world that a lot of us have listened to on TV and kind of what their perspectives are on America and see how biblically sound they might be. Right. So, and I'm so glad we're in Darby, Montana again, but as you can see behind us, have the elk on the wall and just a big beautiful fireplace. And so we're excited to be in such a great location to talk about America. So, if you'd like to get us started. Yeah, just to make perhaps a little bit of a background about how I came into having an interest in this topic. Yeah. Some of you already know that I was on staff at the Breen Call. That is the ministry of Dave Hunt and Tia McMahon. And of course, Dave went home to be with the Lord a few years back. But I had the privilege and honor of working with and for Him for about twelve years. And I learned a lot, a tremendous amount. And one of the topics that fascinated me was because as many of our listeners, we were born and raised, you know, with very conservative values, including patriotism, honoring God, family, country, and those are obviously great values to instill in children growing up. But as I began to research and study, I came to discover that a lot of what we've been taught did not necessarily align with Scripture. And so I began an exploration, more of a serious study about how, what does the Bible say, right? Because as a Berean, we need to search the Scriptures And we need to see what they say and declare rather than what man says. And so, a relevant quote to kind of kick off our time together, some of our readers have undoubtedly heard it. This is from Alexander Fraser Tittler and he was a professor of history in Greek and Roman antiquities at the University of Edinburgh, and he lived from 1747 to 1813. So it's fascinating to consider this quote. Here it is. He said, The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from great courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, and from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, and from dependency back to bondage. Wow. Fascinating to consider where our nation is at this point. Right. But by this measure, and he was a professor and historian, you know, from a couple hundred years ago. And so he was well researched. And so America has actually lived beyond his expectation of a two hundred year timeframe. Wow. We're fifty years over that. Fifty years over that. At that point. Wow. Right. And two fifty years is very exciting for, you know, celebrating, but you're right. We really have to look at a different perspective of where is America going and what is our future, in as a country, as, the place we live, but also, what does it say in the bible about America? Right, so that's a fascinating question. Is America in Bible prophecy? That's been a common question many have discussed and debated through the years, so we're definitely gonna touch on that. The answer may surprise you. Yeah. America is in the scriptures, but not in the way that some would think it is. Okay. So back to 2,009, I wrote a series of articles at the Bree and Call, and there was a series on Christian patriotism that seemed relevant to share on this two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of our nation's founding. And the first article that I wrote in 2009 was called Would Paul, the Apostle Paul, Answer the Call to Christian Patriotism? Interesting question. Indeed. And because I was curious, was interested to know the things that we were taught and not only taught of history, but the respect for the flag and of our nation and the story of its founding. Was it a Christian founding? Was it based on true biblical principles as many believe? And so I did kind of a deep dive and I also wanted to, I became aware of many Christians at that time, respected columnists and pastors across the nation. They were rightly sounding alarm. You know, there's a thickening spread or shroud of global governance. We were concerned in writing about global governance even seventeen years ago. Fascinating. But it was descending upon our nation and it sure is today. And so with the presidentially promised change, you might remember there was a certain president that promised hope and change. Yeah. And it was certainly delivered, wasn't it? And we're still kind of in the throes of that ongoing sequence. But there was a specter, as I wrote, of an encroaching, militarized, one world spirituality darkening the horizon just as it is today, and it was coming under the guise of hope and peace. You know, we all lament the loss of our freedoms, the loss of our liberties, the loss of just general morality in our culture that's clearly in decline. And so, you know, that's part of Bible prophecy. Know, serious students of God's Word have long been alerted to those signs. You know, one Timothy four:one, two Timothy four:three-four, perilous times will come, you know? And there's going to be deceiving spirits, doctrines of demons that are taught and preached from the schools to the pulpits. And of course, we're awash in that. Our podcast is all about being not deceived and be not deceived as we read in Matthew 24, that perilous times will come and deceivers will definitely come They're growing try to worse, yeah. So, but the end is not yet here. No. The Lord is with us even until the end of the age. Yeah. Praise God. Yep, amen. So let's talk a little bit about what is the Mayflower Compact? Who is involved in that and why does that, a lot of people might not even know what that is, but we'll see if you could show us a little bit about what that is and then compare that to the constitution. One of the sources of confusion, and I learned this in the process of my study, is that there's a lot of confusion and conflating with that America's a Christian nation and that the constitution is a Christian document or based on what many consider to be Judeo Christian principles, Judeo Christian values. But as I began to study and unpack some of this, it's not essentially a Christian document. It is not a covenant with God in any way, shape or form. It's not from God to man, and it's not really a covenant from man to God. Fact, it prohibits the establishment of religion of a particular sect or A certain type of religion. Right, exactly. So the very thing that the Constitution guarantees, which is religious pluralism, is of course impacting our culture today. As we decline and there's just a apostasy in the church, and of course, great cultural decline, we see evil manifesting more and more. And that is constitutionally protected, to a certain degree, at least the beliefs are protected. And so the Constitution, it's a marvelous document. And of course, many of the founders involved, some of them were Christian, many of them were deists, all right? Thomas Jefferson is one of note. John Adams, of course, who was our second president, Jefferson being our third president. But by today's standards, and this may surprise some of your viewers, these men would be declared rank heretics today. John Adams was a universalist. He belonged to the Unitarian faith and of course that is the Unitarian Universalist Church today. Not in any way shape or form of biblical faith. And Thomas Jefferson, as some of the viewers may know, is famous for cutting up the scriptures. Oh, If you go back to his home in Washington or Virginia, you'll see his scripture there on the desk and the pages are all chopped up. And so can you imagine today any minister of the Bible literally cutting out the pages? Well, do that, you know, they're a fan. Yeah, they'll admit some and then Selective quoting, yeah, the so called red letter Christians that selectively quote scriptures, and yet he was considered the author of our constitution. Yeah, and I think we all kind of considered him to be a Christian. But without any deep investigation, was he truly a He denied the deity of Christ. So, right off the bat, you have an indication, you know, that's a good litmus test that he is unfortunately not in the faith. Oh, wow. So, the Mayflower Compact, in contrast, it was a document, a very brief document, and we can pull it up and read it maybe in another episode, but it was an attempt to form a covenant with God, but it was specific to the men who came on the Mayflower. I think there were more than a dozen, and they formed the original colony, and so it was to But the fascinating part is while the document stated that they were expressly coming to propagate the gospel for the furtherance of the gospel of Christ, and so that was a religious document. The constitution not religious, the compact was. And it was also to govern these first members of the colony so that they had an authority structure, but it did not pertain to the entire country, and it did not establish Christian religion as a governing force outside of that colony, and so it was more or less a temporary document for that specific purpose. Specific people. And here's the surprising part, that was a full one hundred and seventy years prior to the Declaration of Independence. Yeah. And so, the two That's a long time. That's a very long time. Yeah. It's almost as long. Many of us remember celebrating the bicentennial. Yeah. Now we're at the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary. So one hundred and seventy years, that's almost a bicentennial. Yeah. So it was a long time of separation between those two documents. We look at the constitution, In God We Trust, and we see it as a biblical document. A lot of countries don't have a constitution to stand on and have as the highest rule over the land. Yeah, that's true, Vicky. Know, there's also always been kind of an inextricable connection between Christian and patriotism, and to the point where there and there's nothing wrong with patriotism. It's simply love of country. Yeah. And so regardless of what country we're living in, a believer in Christ can certainly love their country, but we must not make that nation or the flag or the symbol of that nation an idol. That's easily done, unfortunately. And I think to a certain degree, a small degree, or even a large degree in certain cases, that's become the case within the church, within the evangelical church in America. So tell me a few of these prominent individuals who are Christians who who have somewhat led a lot of Christians astray maybe in in their in their belief towards the towards the bible and connecting to America. There's been a historical view that America, a view called American exceptionalism. And by that, it doesn't mean that America is just greater and better on, in its skills or its industry or its knowledge, but that America is exceptional because God ordained it to be so, almost as though America is that city on a hill. So it's a replacement for Israel, unfortunately, and as we unpack this, we'll see that that is largely due to the error of replacement theology. And America has supplanted Israel as that city on a hill and really become a form of Zion. In that In America. In America. And so in that regard, that false belief in Christian nationalism bears a lot in common with Mormonism, where Joseph Smith, of course, first believed that Zion was in Illinois and then Zion was going to be in Really? Right, and so when it didn't come to fruition and he and his early church were persecuted, they fled to Utah, and Salt Lake City became Zion, and then in his later writings, he declared that all of America was Zion. And so there's there's an odd relationship between Christian nationalism and that concept. Wow. There is no such thing as Christian nationalism. The kingdom of god is not of this world. Jesus said that. He said, my kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight. His kingdom is not of this world. The kingdom of this world is a separate world. They're not linked together. Let me say it another way. Nothing that happens in any nation, whether it's a communist nation, a Muslim nation, or a, quote, unquote, quasi Christian nation, or an atheistic nation, nothing in that nation politically, socially has anything to do with the advancement of the kingdom of god because the kingdom of god is separate from that system. God in his sovereignty is building his church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it, Jesus said. So the idea that you should link up some political effort, some political process, some social process, some gain of power or influence in a culture as part of the advance of Christianity is alien to Christianity. You never have our lord approaching anything like that nor the apostles, and particularly the apostle Paul. He sought to gain no favor with the Roman empire whatsoever, or for that matter with any other of the rulers that he ran into during his life. Now that is not to say that we are indifferent to what happens in the nation. We've been talking about that the last couple of Sunday mornings. We we have to we have to be the people who uphold righteousness. We when we come to vote, we wanna vote for that which is the most righteous option. Obviously, we can't vote in righteousness, but we we have to vote in a way that reflects our commitment to the righteousness of of god. So we couldn't possibly elect somebody who was an abortionist, somebody who was LGBTQ or LGBTQ affirming, or or any other deviation from, god's righteous moral standard. So it gets harder, doesn't it, nowadays? Because even sometimes when politicians are more conservative and anti abortion, they may be may be sinful and wicked in some other categories, and it's very hard to find out who is really honest and who is simply dishonest and seeking power. But in the end, we do what we can with the understanding that the responsibility of the church is not to advance the kingdom of this world. That that's a faulty viewpoint. Christian nationalism is usually tied to what is called postmillennialism, and that is the view that the church somehow, by influencing the culture, can bring in the kingdom of Christ. In other words, it's the idea not that Christ returns and sets up his kingdom, but that the church establishes his kingdom and then hands it to him. That is not what scripture teaches. What scripture teaches is what we're learning from the book of Revelation. Things are gonna get worse and worse and worse, and the end of human history is not the church triumphant reigning in the world and taking over the structures of human kingdoms. That's not what happens. At the end of human history, the believers are persecuted and murdered, and that's the very opposite of what Christian nationalism would anticipate. So we believe the bible teaches that things get worse and worse headed toward the wrath of god, which we're seeing in revelation, and then our lord returns himself to establish his kingdom. Clearly, we read in the book of revelation. Yeah. In this initial article, I just began to ask questions of myself and then study God's Word and also pull in knowledge of men that I greatly respect, Dave Hunt being one. In one of the articles he wrote that impacted me greatly in my personal faith was turned into a little pamphlet or brochure, and it was regarding Christian activism and whether or not Christians are called to activism. And so, of course, growing up conservative, evangelical, saved at age nine in a small community church, and my parents were very active in conservative politics growing up, so they were very concerned about the agendas that have taken their full bloom today. But back in the 1970s, 1980s, they were campaigning against things like the gay agenda, you know, homosexuality and then what was called the equal rights movement, right, which today is just full blown feminism. So they've both passed, but if they were alive today, they would see that their efforts unfortunately were futile. Everything that they've fought against is now entrenched in our nation's culture, even becoming planks of the very party that they were part of, the Republican Party, now makes no distinction between, you know, it fully endorses Embrace, accepts homosexual marriage, for example. Right. And Planned Parenthood remains fully funded despite promises to defund Yeah, defund it. So, during that whole era, we of course had the moral majority with Jerry Falwell, we had Liberty University, we had Eagle Forum with Phyllis Schlafly, she was Catholic but very much concerned about morality in her nation. We even had James Dobson and Focus on the Family, So all of these organizations during that my parents' life and my young adulthood continued to try to quote unquote take America back. And all of those, well intended, well meaning, many aspects of it, God honoring, but ultimately failed. Even Jerry, excuse me, even James Dobson, upon his retirement announced that we've lost the culture war. Yeah. And so, in other words, the overarching mission of all of these organizations has ultimately failed And that's kind of a bitter pill to swallow, but it causes you to reevaluate what are we here for. Yeah, and I want to be careful. I want to distinguish between being salt and light because that is, of course, we're called to be salt and light and so for those who are called to participate in politics at any level, local, county, state, even at the federal level, we can make an impact. We can occupy until he comes, as many love to quote. But that doesn't mean that we're going to ultimately be successful in reconquering or taking back the things that really Satan is using to advance his kingdom. The world is ripe for judgment. It sure is. And it's getting closer and closer as we see the corruption. And but it is very important that we are the light and salt and light to the world unto salvation. See, the point is is not necessarily to clean up our world around us because the Lord promises us that it's going to wax worse and worse as it gets towards that end. And then, but our trust and hope is solely on Jesus. Amen. And so Christian patriotism, still wonderful ideal, but I think in many of our hearts and minds, it became an unattainable ideal. We all want to live in a nation that is righteous, a nation that is holy. Yep, it has And lost so really, we're longing for heaven. Yeah, that's right. That's right, really. We're longing to get back to the gardens. You know, God's perfection. And so, it does grieve us to see societal decay. It does grieve us to see such an increase in lawlessness, but these are the very things that scripture told us would come. Of course, so, as I began to study these things, I looked even into the Old Testament. Consider the case of Daniel, consider Joseph. These courageous men were both types of Christ and they were subjected to all manner of trials and temptations. Even captivity. Even captivity. And yet, at no time did they resist the enemy with force. Right. They didn't take up arms, they didn't seek to overthrow their captors. Even like when Jesus was on the earth, the disciples were ready to go. They were ready for the Lord to take on his kingdom and who's gonna be on my right hand and who's gonna be on my left and kind of jockeying for power because Messiah has come, but not for this time. Exactly. What time are you living in? And like he said to the religious leaders of the time, you don't know the times that you live in. Yeah, that was not an encouragement. That was a rebuke. That they should have known because they have the Old Testament to teach them exactly what was gonna happen. Right. The Messiah was coming and His name is Jesus and He will die on the cross and be cut off. So they should have known all that. Should have known. Yep. And there's no excuse. Just like us today. We should know. That's right, Vicki. And in like manner, so much of the church is ignorant about what God's word actually says about our current time and the times to come. Right. And so that's part of our purpose here is to unpack these things so that the church, the bride of Christ, can be faithful to the end, that we can finish well. And that means that we need to, as the old hymn says, turn your eyes upon Jesus. Look full in His wonderful face. And the things of earth will grow strangely Strangely dim. Matter what condition it's in, right? Exactly. If it's cleaned up or if it's falling apart. And most likely the Lord tells us it's gonna fall apart. And truth is so important. I was reading earlier Matthew five fourteen, talking about that we are a light, we are salt and light and I want to read that real quick it says Starting at, verse 13 chapter five, you are the salt of the earth but if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden, neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead, they put it on its stand and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others that they may see your good deeds and glorify your father in heaven. It's very important we we we do spread the gospel. We are a light to the world around us. But to define what our role is as shining that light. Yeah. We wanna touch on obviously the second amendment, and a lot of people want to take up arms, or have at points suggested that it is incumbent upon us to do so. And so that's a question that we should examine from a biblical perspective. But just real quickly regarding Daniel and Joseph, they rose to prominence in pagan cultures that literally worshipped Satan, Yeah, yep. And of course in different manifestations, but at no time did they attempt to overthrow this or to change the system. Yeah. You know, they continued to be faithful. They didn't try to ignite a revolution. And some people would say, Well, that's the Old Testament. You know, we live in the New Testament now. We're in a different dispensation. So then, what of Paul? What of Peter? Did these equally courageous New Testament saints resist their captives with force? Did these powerful apostles of Christ start a political party? Yeah, I've never heard of that. And did they declare their independence from the pagan world in which they resided? No, none of them did at any point in time. All of Christ's disciples except John were martyred. And they weren't killed, they weren't martyred for their quote unquote inalienable rights. They didn't live in a country that worshipped God, and they weren't martyred for their right to keep and bear arms. So these were causes that are near and dear to the heart of every Christian patriot that if we are looking at the example of the apostles and the prophets, they weren't even on their radar. Yeah. To bear arms and revolt. To revolt and to risk. Demand our rights. And to rise up against tyranny. Yeah, so, if they were examples then, they should be examples for us today. Right, yeah, keep that in mind. Jesus, So obviously we have liberties and we often take them for granted. They've been afforded to us at great expense you know, of faithful men and women who have fought and died for our country and to preserve our freedoms. And that is the intent of their heart, whether or not the government had other ulterior motives behind various campaigns and operations and even wars, as we've come to learn. So we respect all of that. We respect all of the Christian patriots who have sacrificed their, just as we respect the founders of our nation that gave their lives and their fortunes and their sacred honor for what we have today. But does that mean that the American Revolution is a biblical example? You know, were they being faithful to God's word in rebelling against the King of England in that system? Today, we have far more taxation without representation Yeah, oh that's for sure. Than they did at that point in time. So these are some of the topics that I was wrestling with personally, you know, fifteen, twenty years ago. And through a process of examining, being a Berean, studying the scriptures, taking counsel from other wise sources, I'm still forming a biblical worldview as we should all endeavor to do. Right, continue. Absolutely, to be shaped and formed the and word of by His spirit. And so what we discover may surprise us and even ultimately possibly depress us that we've thought a certain way and that needs to change as we're conformed into the mind of Christ. Truth is going to be the most important thing and biblical truth, of course, is the most important thing that we should be reading God's word. Our minds should be renewed every day. We should crucify our flesh that loves to take over because we can have emotions. And when we watch our current president Trump, you know, and making decisions about Iraq, I mean Iran and The Middle East and the different things that are going on, We we ebb and flow with, know, he's doing great, we're so proud, and then wow, is a one worlder or is he, even though he claims he's not? So what is truth when we look at any of those things in our culture today? But as a believer, we should not be our opinions and our understanding of what god's calling us to do should not be swayed by our culture. It should be swayed by what god's word says. Right. And it should always be the same. We're not gonna look at God's word and go, Oh, my culture has now changed, so how I see this has changed. Yeah. No, we should see God's word exactly the way it is and ask the Lord to continue to reveal to us by His Spirit what it means in our culture, but not that our culture will change what we're seeing. Don't sway. Right, they're not conformed to the world. Yeah, so that's very good. Yeah, and I will link all of your articles so anybody out there could read those. How many did you write that were? In this series, specifically addressing patriotism in different aspects, Christian nationalism, and looking forward to America in Bible prophecy, there were probably six or seven articles or extras in the Brain Call newsletter. Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and his disciples came to him for to show him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, see ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down. And as he sat upon the Mount Of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, tell us when shall these things be, and what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, take heed that no man deceive you for many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ and shall deceive many and ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that ye be not troubled for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. Right. And and we just want to, you know, share that we love everyone. We just We just want the truth to come forward and the Bible is very clear of what God's will is on the earth. And those things will play out. They are going to begin to increase, increase like the birth pangs will increase, increase, increase as judgment comes and the rapture first and then the wrath of God will come as we've already studied Revelation. And if you would like to look at any of the series that I've done with Pastor Rick Baudry with the Book of Revelation, that will be also on my YouTube channel. So if you are wanting meat of the word and to grow, please find those those different series that I have posted and and set your heart to know what god's saying and and and grow. Our we should be learners. And if you feel like you have stopped learning, I encourage you to take up that mantle and begin to learn and learn God's word and learn what God says and the truth of God's word is very important. So I thank you Mark for starting us off on this series and I'm so excited about the next episodes. One of our next topics Vicki asked a controversial question. Uh-oh. Christian patriots, are you ready to die? Right, very good. That's a good one. Are you ready to die? Well the Lord tells us to die daily I thank you again and we will see you in the next episode. Thank you Vicki. All right thank you.
About This Podcast
Be Not Deceived Podcast with Vicki Wiederrich
Be Not Deceived is a podcast dedicated to looking at Biblical truth and comparing it to the lies the world and the devil is telling to cause deception in the church and in our society at large in the present day. The devil is trying to deceive as many as possible, but God always wins!
