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Flat Earth Deception Part 1
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Welcome back to Be Not Deceived. I'm so glad to be here again with some special guests with me and also a special subject that we're gonna be talking about. And with the idea that the earth is not a globe or a round as we might think, that they are they're thinking that it might be flat. And I didn't know that this was actually something that somebody would dive into or even believe as a Christian since we look at God's creation and, we look at our Earth as it is right now. We look up at the moon and the sun, and we can see all the elements work together as God has created it. But today, we're gonna dive into, many aspects of discovering what they're talking about. We're gonna look at the history of where did this flat earth idea come from. We're also gonna look at, biblically, what does the Bible say about the earth and God's creation, and we're gonna look at it in astronomical aspects of it too. So I have, my guest here today, a wonderful pastor, pastor Rick Baudry for from Bremerton Calvary Chapel, Bremerton. And I thank you for coming and being a part of this, this group, discussion. I have Mark Dinsmar, joining us in this panel of of, Flat Earth discussion, and I thank you for coming. Pleasure. And first time guest, I have a pastor Kevin Lee, the Calvary Church of Port Orchard, and I thank So you for joining us what I think I wanna do is start out with some of the the history of of where did this come from? Why why are we having this discussion, and and and and what is the foundation? Where did this what did this idea develop? And let's start with Mark Dinsmore. Thanks, Vicky. This is a great research topic. It's something that every Christian really ought to be able to evaluate and defend scientifically and biblically, and yet we find that so many of us in the church, in the body of Christ, have grown up with facts that we believe, but we're unable to defend them or explain them. So this is a great way for us to reinvestigate some of these things that we've known and believed and to be able to give a reason for them. But, I'd venture to say that all of us here and and most of the viewing audience have probably grown up with a cultural myth, about the flat earth that goes something like this. Until the time of Christopher Columbus five centuries ago, nearly everyone thought the earth was flat. And supposedly with our sophistication and intelligence today, we now know better than those ignorant people of the past. That's how Doctor. Danny Faulkner introduced the topic in his new book, which I highly recommend. But I know that this is what my parents believe because I recall asking them as a young boy and this was mostly the answer that they gave me. In fact, I remember, and I think this might have precipitated the question. There's a famous painting, of a ship sailing off the end of the world and tipping off an enormous waterfront. Yeah. I remember seeing that. Mhmm. It's a great it's a great picture. And it was interesting for me to find out that, one of the sources of this Columbus oriented myth or mythology was at least largely fabricated, if not entirely, by an American author, Washington Irving, in his 1828 biography of the voyages of Christopher Columbus, which were, first and kind of helped. He he exaggerated the fears and the the mythology surrounding Flat Earth. And so we came up through grade school, elementary school, even high school believing that, Columbus decided the matter once and for all that the earth was a sphere. Mhmm. But, there's a lot more mythology about Columbus, unfortunately, that we were taught in school. It isn't true. But the main point of the discussion is that, scientists had demonstrated the sphericity of the Earth for at least two thousand years prior to Christopher Columbus even sailing the oceans blue. So, I mentioned doctor Danny Faulkner. He is an astronomer and creation science teacher for answers in Genesis, and he discusses more about this Columbus myth in his book titled falling flat. I think every believer, pastor Rick, I think you mentioned this book a bit ago. And so every believer with questions should read it. Yeah. Falling flat. It's one of the resources I've gleaned from and and benefited from. So he documents the rise and the fall of the flat earth movements, which is a fascinating history. It's quite lengthy. We'll touch on some of the points here this morning today, but, he demonstrates beyond any shadow of a doubt from science, history, and the Bible that the spherical Earth is not only proven, but it is the perspective of scriptures as well as the early church. So, a couple examples of this. Faulkner writes, and I'll quote here just by way of introduction. There are examples of early church authorities who taught that the earth was a globe. Three examples are Athenagoras, the late second century, Methodius, the late third century, and Arnovius from the early fourth century. However, early church fathers did not address cosmology much. There are probably at least two reasons for this. One reason was that the early church was battling some very serious issues of more immediate concern. Early on, there was the influence of Gnosticism that had to be driven from the church, and this is interesting because we see a resurgence in Gnosticism today. And in fact, that can be directly related, as we'll see, to the Flat Earth, mythology. The second reason, the early church didn't focus on this topic was that there was probably not much dispute about the shape of the It was a no brainer? It was a no brainer. So why write about matters that don't appear to be doctrinal, especially on questions where there was no debate? Uh-huh. But historically, the cosmology of the church was geocentric, but not flat earth. And today, there's a lot of confusion between heliocentrism, geocentrism, and the flat earth model or, and they can they're confused and conflated. Faulkner says, admittedly, there were two individuals, in the history of the church worthy of note that did indeed teach the earth was flat. So we need to know about these folks. Right? Mark those who, teach things not according to doc a sound doctrine. One of these was Lactanius or Lactantius, an early fourth century Berber who eventually became an adviser to Constantine. And he actually mocked those who believed that the earth was spherical in one of his books. The other was Cosmos Indicotrioustis, a Greek from Alexandria who in the early sixth century made several voyages to India and Ceylon. He later wrote Christian topography in which he argued that the earth was flat and rectangular. He said that it was a box shaped with a arched or domed lid, And he took his contemporary Christians to task for believing the earth was spherical, claiming here's another, parallel to today's, culture. He claimed that the spherical earth was pagan inspired. Alright? And the irony is is we'll find out the the reverse is actually true. Right. But nonetheless, this lies perpetuated by, many flat earths today, including those, who name the name of Christ. So this is really evidence that Christians believed in a spherical Earth. For why would one criticize a belief that didn't exist? Right? So neither Lactenius nor cosmos are known for anything else. If not for their odd ideas about the Earth's shape, they would be more obscure than they already are. So that It didn't go very far. It didn't it didn't go very far. Right? It didn't really take At least at the time. But and this is where it gets pulled into more recent times because there's really, at least three phases of this flat earth idea. And so later in the nineteenth century, critics falsely portrayed the teachings of Lactantius and Cosmos as typical of the early medieval church. So in other words, secular writers and and philosophers began to pick up these false ideas, these erroneous teachings, and they publicized them as being widely accepted Christian doctrine. So now it's attaching it to Christian, beliefs instead of secular. That's right. And so, that's how we see through the eighteen hundreds. There was literally an explosion, of flat earthism and many other false spiritual teachings. So with that background, we can look at some of the proponents of this through history and how these ideas crept into the church historically and why they persist today. One pro flat earth writer says, quote, although belief in the flat earth dates to prebiblical times, the modern flat earth belief got its start in Trowbridge, England during an evening lecture, 01/15/1849. So, this lecture began by saying the bible, and this lecture called himself Parallax, not his real name, teaches that the Earth is flat. Modern astronomy, he said, is based on mere theories. He developed this theory called Zetetic Astronomy Mhmm. Which he said deals in facts. And his name, as some will recognize, is Samuel Robotham. Robotham. And he lived from 1816 to 1884. Mhmm. And so he was an English inventor, writer, a utopian socialist, and flat earther who wrote, Zetetic astronomy, Earth not a globe, under the pseudonym Parallax. And he was originally published, in 1849 and expanded this into a book in 1865. So, yeah, that was the the beginnings of many Christians citing Robotham's work and experiments, as proof of the Flat Earth, and yet they failed to consider his anti Christian philosophy and as a utopian socialist. And so that's one of the spiritual roots of this entire movement. The history of the Flat Earth Society. The Flat Earth Society goes back to an Englishman by name Samuel Robotham, lived in the nineteenth century. He was a medical doctor who believed he had proved that the earth is flat and then complained for the rest of his life that the supposed scientific authorities ignored him. He referred to his method as satatecism, after the Greek word sitio, to seek. By satatecism he meant an extreme version of the philosophy of empiricism. Robotham's philosophy, which is still the philosophy of flat earthers today, is that if you want to understand nature, you should only rely on information from your own senses. You can for example read on the website of the Flat Earth Society. The world looks flat, the bottoms of clouds are flat, the movement of the sun, these are all examples of your senses telling you that we do not live on a spherical heliocentric world. This is using what's called an empirical approach or an approach that relies on information from your senses. That flat earthers insist on evidence from your own senses only really is key to understanding their problem. I will come back to this. But first, let me tell you the rest of their history. After Robotham's death in 1884, the flat earth idea was carried forward by another British guy, Samuel Shunton, who once explained to a journalist: No man knows the ultimate shape of the earth, but that portion we live on is definitely flat. No one will ever know what the whole complexity is like, I suppose, because he goes beyond his sphere of observation, investigation and comprehension. Again, note the emphasis on personally collected evidence. In 1954, Shanten created the International Flat Earth Society. Few people cared, he died in 1971. After his death, the Flat Earth Society was taken over by The US American Charles Johnson. But even after the advent of the internet, Flat Earthers did not attract much attention. Johnson died in 2001, at which point the Flat Earth Society had 3,500 or so members. The job then fell to another American, Daniel Shelton, who is not related to the earlier Shelton, but whose logic falls right in line. He said in an interview with The Guardian in 2010: I don't think there is solid proof. I'm not intentionally being stubborn about it, but I feel our senses tell us these things, and it would take an extraordinary level of evidence to counteract those. How many people have actually investigated it? Have you? Shantan had the idea to set up a wiki page for the Flat Earth community. Still no one cared, but in 2016 everything changed. What happened in 2016 is that a few devout flat earthers put up videos here on YouTube. And that really got things going by way of recruiting new believers. These videos have meanwhile been watched by millions of people. And that had consequences. In a 2018 poll in The United States, 2% of the respondents said they believe the earth is flat, while another 7% are not quite sure. Reliable numbers are hard to come by, but we are meanwhile probably talking about more than 10,000 people in the developed world whom reject science that was settled by the middle ages. Let that sink in for a moment. How does someone end up rejecting something as scientifically well established as the fact that the earth is wrong? There is not only one reason, of course. Some flat earthers find the idea is appealing for religious reasons, Others are of the crowd who think NASA is evil, space is a fake, and the moon landing didn't happen. But mostly it's because they think they are merely being rational skeptics. They have not themselves been able to prove the earth is round. So they believe they are only reasonable when they request evidence. CNN, for example, reports from a Flat Earth conference: Like most of the speakers at the event CNN spoke to, he was convinced after he decided he couldn't prove the earth's roundness. I want to leave aside here that, of course, you cannot strictly speaking prove any empirical fact. You can only prove mathematical identities. So more precisely, we should speak of seeking evidence that disfavors the hypothesis that the earth is flat. Of which there is plenty, starting with the historical evidence about how stellar constellations shift if you travel, how the length of shadows changes to Newton's one over r squared force law, that is the law of force sphere, not a disk, not to mention Einstein and gravitational redshift and the perihalium precision of mercury, and so on and so forth. The problem that Flat Earthers have is that they cannot do most of these observations themselves. So if you buy the idea that it's only your personally collected evidence that you should accept, then it seems you cannot refute the idea that the earth is flat, and so Flat Earthers philosophy forbids them to accept scientific fact. Needless to say, if you want to hold on to your convictions, it helps if you refuse to do observations that could speak against them. There are actually many ways to convince yourself that the earth is round, which are not that technically difficult. Buy a telescope and try to explain the motions of the moons of Jupiter, for example. So what's wrong with Flat Earthers attitude? Isn't asking for evidence exactly what rational thinkers should do? Sure, evidence is key to scientific progress, But Flat Earthers' philosophical approach by which they reject certain types of evidence is inconsistent and ultimately logically wrong. See, the only evidence anyone ever has of anything is evidence you collect with your own senses, except as Descartes pointed out, evidence of your own ability to think. But this is not relevant here. Relevant is that the distinction which flat earthers are trying to draw between different types of evidence does not exist. All evidence you have is sensory input. If you hear an explanation of someone else's experiment, if you read a paper laying out someone else's argument, that's your own sensory input. A distinction which does exist, however, is that some of our sensory input requires very little decoding, while some requires a lot. Flat earthers problem is that they refuse to decode difficult sensory input. A good example for the need to decode sensory input by conscious thought are optical illusions. Your brain tries to interpret visual input in ways that sometimes gives a misleading result, as in this example. You almost certainly think square A is darker than square B, it is not. To understand your sensory input correctly, you need to draw on other information, in this case your knowledge about optical illusions. Your brain interprets this image as if it was a natural three-dimensional scene, and therefore calculates back to the original color of the squares, taking into account what appears to be a shadow. This is the wrong interpretation if you want to know the actual color of pixels on the screen. The lesson is, if you do not think about your sensory input, if you do not properly decode it, you arrive at the wrong conclusion. Flat earthers similarly arrive at the wrong conclusion by failing to decode evidence, indeed by simply ignoring a lot of evidence that their own senses deliver. This is evidence about how society and how science works. Whether we are scientists or not, we all constantly use this evidence to navigate life, and I'm sure flat earthers are no exception. Just consider going to the supermarket and buying canned soup. Do you have evidence that what's in the can is edible? Probably not. For one, the can's closed. And if you're anything like me, you probably have no idea how or where or by whom it was produced. Why, then, are you not afraid of eating canned soup? Isn't this entirely irrational? No, because you do have evidence that canned soup is edible. You know how the legal system in your country works. You know that there are regulations on what can be sold as food in a supermarket. You know that if what's in that can was harmful to you, then a lot of people along the food chain would be punished for their mistake, and they don't want that. Your trust in canned food is an entirely reasonable inference from evidence, evidence that you collected with your own senses. Because what else could you possibly have collected it with? Now let's come back to flat earthers. Most of you don't have a physics degree, and chances are that after learning in school how we know the earth is round, you didn't think much about it ever again. By and large, you're probably confident it's correct because what you learned in school was plausible, and you know it is widely taught to children, And you know that your government strives to give children in your country a scientifically accurate education. So you have good reason to think the knowledge you were taught is backed by solid scientific evidence. There is no appealing to authority here. You have totally yourself collected all this evidence about how society works. You have also yourself collected lots of evidence that science works. Any airplane, any laptop, any pair of glasses is evidence that science works. It's evidence that the system works. It's evidence for how the whole world works. So if you cannot recall just what experiments demonstrate that the earth is not flat, or if you cannot immediately figure out what's wrong with Flat Earth's arguments, there's no shame in rejecting their claims, because your rejection is based on evidence, evidence that science works. What's wrong is that Flat Earthers claim they are leading a scientific argument. But there is no scientific argument about whether the earth is flat. This argument was settled long ago. Instead, Flat Earther's argument is about whether you should trust evidence that other people have collected before you. And it's an important argument, because this trust is essential for society and science to progress. The only alternative we have is that each and every one of us has to start over from scratch with birth. You see, Flat Earthers would eventually figure out the Earth's round, but it might take them a thousand years until they've reinvented modern science. This is why I think scientists should take Flat Earthers philosophical problems seriously. It's a problem that any scientifically advanced society must address. It is not possible for each and every one of us to redo all experiments in the history of science. It therefore becomes increasingly important that scientists provide evidence for how science works, so that people who cannot follow the research itself can instead rely on evidence that the system produces correct and useful descriptions of nature. To me, therefore, flat earthers are a warning sign that scientists should take seriously. The more difficult scientific experiments and arguments are to follow for non experts, the more care we must take to explain how we lead those arguments. You know, history is there for a reason, and you do have to be discerning of what's true and what's not. But as believers, we go to the word of God. We we we we can trust in God's word because it's trustworthy. So we don't have to have walked with Jesus during Right. His days on earth to believe that Jesus is. Yeah. We will trust the apostles and the and the ones who are giving us this testimony and, of course, the word of god. Amen. Just wanted to Yeah. Even the non believing Jews, well, that are your tour guides. So you really think there was a Jesus that Yeah. Was born here two thousand years ago? Absolutely. There's it's irreputable. Even though we didn't see it, they didn't see it, the evidence is everywhere. And what they always stumble on is the resurrection and that He was their Messiah, but they know He existed. And and this is an important point that, okay, so they want to believe by their own sense. So we should tell, you know, fund one of the great flat earthers of today, and buy them a pilot's license. Know, pay everything to give them a pilot's license. Okay, start at the Equator and fly west as long as you can. And when you get done with all your fuel stops and everything, see if you end up in the same airport that you took off from. Right. And and so then and then make sure you're like this guy. Mark sent this to us the other day. Jaren Kempentella, right? He was a flat earther, except some people funded him to go 9,000 miles to Antarctica to observe a twenty four hour sun, a phenomena that would be impossible on a flat earth. Yeah. And so now he's a back to spherical earth person because he, with his own senses, flew down there to go see it. And anybody can do that. And the other thing you could do is fund somebody to be an astronaut. Okay, we'll pay your Yeah. As long as you do the as long as you're the right stuff to be an astronaut someday. And you can fly up there and there's been hundreds of people that have gone into low Earth orbit over the decades. And one of them I got a chance to meet when I was in Texas at the Institute for Creation Research headquarters there in Dallas. He's a board member of ICR. His name is Jeffrey Williams. I think he's a colonel, retired colonel. But and and just before meeting him, a friend of mine, Rob Yarley, said, Kevin, you know, you wouldn't believe the grief he gets. He's a he's a Christian creationist. And he goes around the country and speaking on creation issues and what he's seen in space and stuff. And he gets very bombastic people that come up to him after his presentation saying, You're part of the conspiracy. You're lying. You're lying to everybody here because the earth is flat. And so he's sitting there having to defend himself against these Christians that are calling him a fraud. They're you're lying to all these people. You've been flying up there around the flat earth. How do you do that? Well, you know, you have to do that. So even flying around the flat earth, and now you're lying to everybody because NASA has told you to say it's a sphere. And so then he told me that just, you know, Rob Yarley told me that just before I meet him. And so then I said, Hey, you know, I, in fact, I'm Jeffrey, Yeah. Hi, Jeffrey. You know what? I've been really wondering. I I said, you've been up there. You you know what the world really is. And so what I wanna know, though, is that when you went over the edge, how thick was it? And he goes, Oh! How thick it is? That's nothing. You should see what's on the other side. Exactly! You know, so we should be able to we were not eyewitnesses by our own senses. We were not eyewitnesses to the resurrection of Jesus. But we read accounts of people that were eyewitnesses. Yeah, 500. I'm not an eyewitness to flying in a spacecraft in low Earth orbit, which can only be through a you can only be in low Earth orbit around a spherical object. A relatively spherical object. You can have bumps and stuff. And so I haven't been up there, but I talked to, shook hands with an eyewitness that had at the time he was the most male, had most accumulated days in space for The United States. And he's been superseded by others that have gone more now. But he's been up there. He was an eyewitness. He's a Christian. He's commanded by God not to lie and spread rumors and falsehoods. I can even though it wasn't my senses, my sense of evidence is that the earth is real because these people have seen it. They flew up there and they saw it. And the other evidence is I have a Starlink. That's how I get my internet access to Starlink. Starlink is working. It actually works in my house. And it's because there's a satellite up there. There's thousands of them. There is. There's thousands of satellites in low Earth orbit. You can't be in a low Earth orbit, you can't have a GPS constellation of that work to the centimeters here on Earth as far as GPS goes. You can't have that unless the Earth is spherical. And so there's dozens of reasons why. By evidence of science, by evidence of reality that the Earth is round. And so people are being deluded and deceived. Do not be deceived. Be not mean, it's so important you. Don't check your brain because somebody has watched a YouTube clip by somebody saying: You know what? The Earth is really flat and all these NASA people are a bunch of conspiracy people that deceive you. Not that the government doesn't deceive us. Exactly. So but on this one they're right. The earth is a sphere. There's so many elements of the earth and the satellites and the and the things that we observed along with lunar eclipses that show us and give us evidence that that the earth is is a globe. And and I love that that we can we can do this, and we've gathered, you know, in in all of our different expertise. And I'm gonna bring on my husband also, Rob Wiederich, who's he dives into the astronomical part of, telescopes and and the stars, and and that's kind of a passion of his. So he's gonna be joining us here in in a little while, just to kinda touch base on some of the the lies that the flat earthers are putting those videos out in on YouTube and, what are we actually seeing? You know, he's gonna describe what we're actually seeing compared to someone who's producing a video that they are not knowledgeable are enough to figure out what they're trying to present is actually a deception. So that'll be very interesting. And that probably, you know, the point that you make that not everything is deception. And the Bible says in the last days there's going to be great deceivers, great lies and everything. And it probably is. The people that are Christians that are being sucked into this, they've gotten conditioned well, nineeleven was a lie, safe and effective was a lie. You know, you just the the whole pandemic scam. Masks work is a lie. Mhmm. Everything's a lie. Yeah. But if if the government said it, then it's gotta be the exact opposite. Right. And so there probably is some of that at work that people have become so conditioned to everything they tell me. Yeah. Have a deceived. Mhmm. And they've told me the earth is flat. And I've got this YOLO Yahoo pastor on YouTube Mhmm. That says one of the other things they lied to us about is the earth being round. And so then they just they say, well, okay. And we've been told the earth is round. It must not be true because the the whole world is a bunch of liars. Yeah. They threw that in the That probably is contributing. I hadn't thought about that. Exactly. For this conversation. It's contributing to people that are but not everything's a lie. Yeah. So some things we the government can't tell us the truth. It's possible that it that they could be telling us the truth. Exactly. And then the and I love the that the experiment that they just did in December that I watched about the twenty four hour sun. You know, they time lapsed it. They actually took a group of people to the Antarctica, and it actually I wrote that down. Let's see. It was in Union Glacier, Antarctica. And they did this experiment, and they brought four four flat earthers, which I know that they hate to be called flat earthers, but that's what they are. And they volunteered, and they went they went with them to there. And they stayed for five days, and they time they watched it with their own eyes that twenty four hours the sun was visible. The entire went around the South Pole. Mean, it's you know, it's basically they were watching the sun stay visible on the, you know, the Southern Hemisphere's winter solstice. Yep. Exactly. And that was this year, December 2024. And and then if you know, six months later, they could do it up on the North Pole if they wanna go there. They wanna put the cherry on the top and and but It's the same thing. Proof. Pun intended to do boom. Yeah. But but that convinced those ones who they now do not believe that the earth is flat because they saw a very, very definitive, example that the glow it is a globe if you could see twenty four hours of the sun. So, such a great timing, timing for this conversation, timing for this experiment to be conducted and finished. And how Welcome to the final experiments. The final experiments are a preponderance of evidence against Flat Earth, And the final experiments all confirm the globe. These experiments were all conducted in December 2024 when four Flat Earthers and four Globers went on a journey with me, Will Duffy, to Antarctica. We spent time in Punta Arenas, Chile, which is at the southern tip of South America, before flying to Antarctica. This entire trip allowed us to conduct historic experiments and collect data firsthand from an area of the world that few people will ever have the opportunity to visit and do this themselves. Prior to my announcement of the final experiment in early twenty twenty four, a vast majority of flat earthers with very few exceptions promoted the Gleason's map of the world, which is an azimuthal equidistant projection. This map had the North Pole at the center and pushed the South to the outer perimeter of the known world. This made Antarctica an ice wall perimeter around all the world's continents, and it served to hold in all the world's oceans as flat earthers claim water must have a container. It also extends the entire Southern Hemisphere into a larger and larger area, where on the globe everything South Of The Equator gets closer and closer together. This made being at the Southern tip of South America and Antarctica the perfect place to test flat earth claims and also confirm the globe predictions. Every single flat earth claim failed. Every flat earth prediction was demonstrably false. The final experiments are meant to be taken collectively just like evidence in a court of law. Undoubtedly, flat earthers will attempt to discredit individual experiments we did while at the same time ignoring the rest. If they cannot provide an accurate map of the world and a working model that can account for the results of all of these final experiments collectively, that is because we don't live on a flat earth. If they try to say these experiments are not actual experiments, but only observations, that is because they cannot reconcile our findings with a flat earth. If they say that flat earth does not make predictions, that is because making accurate and testable predictions based on a flat earth is impossible because a flat earth does not exist. You cannot make and test predictions based on something that is not real. Maps of the globe exist because the globe exists. The entire globe model exists because the globe exists. Countless globe predictions come true every day, and countless future globe predictions will continue to happen exactly as predicted because the globe exists. If a flat earther tells you that there is no accurate flat earth map and there is no working flat earth model and that they don't make predictions, that is an implicit admission that a flat earth does not exist. Because you can map things that exist, you can model things that exist, and you can make very specific predictions that come true based on something that actually exists and is testable. I created the final experiment to give both sides, Flat Earth and Globe, an equal opportunity to prove their side. Only the globe side returned with evidence supporting their position. The globe side returned with tons of concrete evidence that both accurately matches the globe model and also falsifies flat This brings us to the twenty four hour sun in Antarctica. A twenty four hour sun is a sun that is visible in the sky all day and never sets. It's visible in the sky all twenty four hours. Flat earthers said for almost a decade that there was not a twenty four hour sun in Antarctica. They were wrong. Flat earthers said for almost a decade that a twenty four hour sun in Antarctica would prove the globe as a twenty four hour sun in Antarctica would not be possible on a flat earth. Hear them for yourself. One of the arguments that people give is on a flat Earth, you can't have a twenty four hour sun, a midnight sun in Antarctica. And I totally agree. But there is no midnight sun in Antarctica. Now, let's say we are trying to prove the globe or trying to prove it's flat. Should be very, very easy. Right? I mean, on a globe, we would have a 24 sun in the southern summer. That means that the sun would circle the continent. In order to fit the heliocentric globe model, this midnight sun phenomenon must also occur for observers south of the Antarctic circle during winter solstice. Depending how far south the observer is, the sun should be seen for several days or weeks, never fully setting, just like it does in the North. In the one model, the heliocentric model, they wouldn't it would necessitate having a twenty four hour sun in the South. Honestly, if if you want to know for sure if the earth is spherical or not, go to Antarctica during the summer and see if you can watch the sun for twenty four hours. You can't. You mentioned the sun, right? Like, the idea is, yeah, if you see the sun in the sky for twenty four hours, that's what the globe predicts, and how would the fire explain that? But that's not what happened. And what I found is anything that would prove the Earth is a globe, the globe science community lies about. For example, the twenty four hour sun in Antarctica doesn't work on a flat Earth. So the reality of our world is that in both models, we're supposed to have a twenty four hour sun. In the flatter model, we say there isn't a twenty four hour sun in the South, and there isn't. You know, this would be easy to prove, but they they hide this from us too. All we'd have to prove is is is go to Antarctica. If let me and you go to Antarctica, spend a week there in the summer, And let's see if the sun does a 306 degree circle all the way around us. If so, it's a ball. It does not get any more clear than that. It's also important to point out that Gleason's map also says there is no twenty four hour sun in Antarctica and includes a bogus claim that there is no sunlight beyond eighty degrees south. Anyone promoting or using Gleason's map after 2024 is knowingly and willingly spreading false information. The globe predicted a twenty four hour sun in Antarctica, and Flat Earthers said there would not be a twenty four hour sun. Because we live on a globe, the globe prediction was correct. The sun never set the entire time we were in Antarctica. All four flat earthers with us in Antarctica saw this with their own eyes and publicly now acknowledge that they were incorrect in their prediction that there would not be a twenty four hour sun. In addition to their eyewitness testimony, we took video and time lapses with multiple cameras of the twenty four hour sun. Here is one quick time lapse that Dave McKeegan captured while we were just outside Union Glacier Camp in Antarctica. If a flat earther tells you that a time lapse is not a video and therefore doesn't count as evidence of the twenty four hour sun, remind them that a video is a series of pictures as is a time lapse. And remember that they are only using that excuse because they cannot reconcile a twenty four hour sun in Antarctica with a flat earth. So they will come up with other ways to attempt to dismiss the reality of the twenty four hour sun, the eyewitness testimony from four flat earthers, and the high definition video and time lapses we captured with multiple cameras. Let the record show that the GLOBE prediction was correct and the flat earth prediction was wrong. But there's more to the story here. Globe predictions are precise and detailed, again, because the globe exists. You can only make accurate predictions that can be tested and verified with something that actually exists. Flat Earth cannot make these types of predictions because a flat Earth simply does not exist. The globe model not only has a twenty four hour sun in Antarctica, but also a twenty four hour sun in the Arctic in the North. This will be a common theme in this series where we will see a beautiful symmetry between the northern and southern hemispheres of the globe. A symmetry that is impossible on a flat earth. And these twenty four hour suns on the globe model in the North and the South happen at different times of year in their respective locations in the Arctic Circle and the Antarctic Circle. The Globe model also says that the twenty four hour sun in the North will move through the sky from left to right, while the twenty four hour sun in the South in Antarctica will move through the sky from right to left. This is another common theme that will emerge in this series, a type of mirror effect when comparing observations in the Northern Hemisphere with observations in the Southern Hemisphere. Again, something that makes perfect sense on a globe, but would be impossible on a flat earth. But the globe model does not stop there. The globe model also predicted the exact elevation angle of the sun based on where we were in Antarctica and what time of day it was, including the up and down wave pattern motion throughout the day. And if that's not enough, the globe model also says that at the geographic poles, the South Pole and North Pole, the sun's elevation angle will not have any visible change in a twenty four hour period, meaning no wave pattern. And that is exactly what we see at the South Pole. Compare the time lapse from Dave McKeegan that we just watched where the sun moves through the sky up and down with this time lapse from Robert Schwartz, which was taken over five days at the South Pole. As you can see, the sun did not move up and down through the sky in a wave pattern like it did for us at Union Glacier. Yet both of these time lapses were taken in Antarctica. Still, the globe accurately predicted the sun's elevation angle changes at Union Glacier in addition to accurately predicting the lack of elevation angle changes at the South Pole. Many people all over the world released video predictions of the sun's elevation angle changes prior to our trip to Antarctica. Here is a video prediction from Ola Dasselaer, which he created before we flew to Antarctica. And as you can see, accurately predicted the movement of the sun through the sky at our specific location of Union Glacier. None of us had ever been to Antarctica, and the twenty four hour sun had never been filmed at Union Glacier. So how was this precise prediction by Ola and others able to be made? Because we live on a globe. Because the globe exists, it can be modeled by anyone and will accurately predict what will be seen at any geographic location. This is impossible to do on a flat earth because a flat earth does not exist. All data points collected perfectly match the globe. A twenty four hour sun in the North at the opposite time of year from a twenty four hour sun in the South. A twenty four hour sun in the North that moves through the sky from left to right with a twenty four hour sun in the South that moves through the sky in the opposite direction. And then the sun's exact elevation angle based on where the viewer is standing in Antarctica and what time of day it is. And finally, the lack of visible change in the sun's elevation angle at the South Pole, which is only 600 miles from Union Glacier. Flat Earth cannot account for any of this. Do not be fooled by a flat earther shining a flashlight on a plastic dome and claiming a twenty four hour sun works on a flat earth. They will film from the outside of the dome hoping you won't notice. But they would need to instead film from inside the plastic dome, not outside as there are no observers outside a dome. And that video inside the dome would need to have a twenty four hour sun in the North one part of the year, a twenty four hour sun in the South the other part of the year, which goes in the opposite direction while the flashlight continues moving in the same direction as the twenty four hour sun in the North, and it would need to have the sun's elevation angle changing for observers in Antarctica and the sun's elevation angle not changing for those far enough south all at the same time. If you didn't follow all of that, that's okay. It's not possible on a flat Earth. And all of this together simultaneously will never be modeled because again, you can't model something with this amount of precision and make these very specific accurate predictions concerning something that doesn't exist. It's only possible to do this with something that is real. And because the globe is real, every single globe prediction concerning the twenty four hour sun was confirmed. And the flat earth predictions were completely false. Please watch our other experiments, which are part of these final experiments, where you will see results that confirm the globe and that would be impossible on a flat earth. And please share this video with anyone you know who is a flat earther or considering flat earth. As Jesus said in John eight thirty two, you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. And how important it is to bring these, truths into play into play. I wanna pivot a little bit and go to the biblical points that because does the bible actually tell us that what god created is a globe? And maybe pastor Rick can bring those scriptures, to us and lead and guide us into, into that truth. Well, I want to ask Mark a question. 1860, the flat earth is happening, but isn't it true along the same lines, the modernism of the evolutionary theory and the scopes trials and Darwinian evolution was also hitting at that same time. Absolutely. A flood of deception And Charles Spurgeon was so brokenhearted because the church was wimping out and they were heading toward theistic evolution as not to appear to be as intellectual, as stupid in the eyes of modernists. And so he tried to hold the line, hold the line, hold the line. And that's what I feel like we're doing here, is we're being a tsunami of deception, like Kevin alluded to in the last days here. And so I'm thinking, Here we have this deception. What's next? These drones, the flying over, the orbs? Mean, we're trying to teach people how to think. Yeah. We're just trying to get them to think. Now, I don't need the government to tell me we live on a sphere. Right. Because in Romans one, everyone's without excuse because of God's revelation through creation. Right? We've talked about this. We look at the lunar, the moon, the lunar eclipse, and the shadows and stuff. My kids can understand that's circular. You know? So it isn't like I need to get in a spaceship and go around and prove it by by myself. It's it's that same Romans one. You worship and serve the creature rather than the creator. You're without excuse because God's revealed through creation. So that's part of it. And then here in Ephesians, I think this is where we're at. And he gave some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers. So Jesus is gifting these leaders to the church. Okay? And so I would consider myself a pastor teacher And thirty some years of being up here in Kitsap County and teaching Bible studies before that and all. I used to question my calling, but I don't question it anymore. And years and years and years of developing sermons, years and years and years of parsing verbs and looking up in dictionaries what the words mean and trying to, you know, follow rules of grammar, rules of English, rules of hermeneutics, and all these things. Everybody's an expert anymore. It drives me insane how rudimentary and how imbecilic and their inability to reason and to prove their point. Anyway, you have these guys that the Lord gives to the church as a gift. And what's the purpose of that? For the perfecting of the saints. So you want people to grow. You want to help them to grow, and that's through the teaching of the Word, for the work of the ministry. So once you help them mature, now they're able to serve and find their gifts and serve within the Body of Christ, for the edifying of the Body. So we want to build them up, right? We want to build them up. And the food that we give them is the Word of God, if we go to Acts 20, the full counsel of God, Genesis to Revelation. But the people today don't have that. They don't have the ability to discern between their left and right. They're not brains. And he says, till we all come into the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. So we're being changed from glory to glory. Our minds are being transformed by the renewing of our mind through the teaching of God's word. And then he says, that he henceforth be no more children. And this is what's happening today. This is why we're here today. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine. In the 1800s they were hit with every wind of doctrine. Apostle Paul was hit with every wind of doctrine, you know, the time, the Judaizers, Gnostics, all that. And then it says, By the slate of men, which is craftiness, right? Trickery on YouTube and cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive. But in contrast to that, But we speak the truth in love. May grow up unto him in all things, who is the head even Christ, from whom the body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplies according to the effectual working in the measure and every part maketh increase of the body under the edifying of itself in love. So basically the church is to grow. Our job as pastors, as Bible students, is to make disciples. And we stay with the Word of God. And so in this argument about the sphere, number one, we have the revelation of creation. We have another revelation, which is those in Acts seventeen eleven, were more noble than those thus likah, because they searched the scriptures to see whether that be so. So one of the verses we go to is Isaiah chapter 40 verse 22, and he sits upon the circle of the earth. Now if I take and I look at that word in the Hebrew, it's a word that describes a three-dimensional sphere, right? If I go to Arabic, it's a ball. If I go to Latin, it's actually the Latin word globus. So now I'm looking at different translations of that sphere of the Hebrew. Into English we have it says circle. The Flat Earthers try to say it's a circle on the ground, you know, just circle there. But the definition of Hebrew there is a three-dimensional sphere. So words have meaning, says it right there in the Word, and then you go to Job 20 six:six-ten and he hangs it on nothing. So these Flat Earthers try to say that he fixed it, and they don't interpret the word fixed. The earth is fixed, so they're saying it's stationary, it doesn't rotate. Well, they fail to interpret words from a literal and a figurative. If you look at the word fixed in the King James, his heart is fixed. Does that mean my heart doesn't pump? It doesn't move? Or does it mean I've determined I'm going to follow the Lord, like Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, and Daniel? They've purposed in their heart they're not going to eat the king's food. That's what fixed means. So the earth is fixed in the sense of order. Not going to be able to topple his order, you know? And so you have to look at it figurative in that point, or the four corners of the Earth. What does that mean? They try to say four corners of the Earth, as in see it square, you know? That's one thing I want to ask, so help me out because you've talked to more flat earthers Help me than I they say, Okay. Isaiah says that it's a circle. So it's a flat circle. But the Bible says it's four corners of the earth so it's square. Yeah. It's all fixed. How? It's fixed. But it doesn't rotate. Wait. You can't have a circle, a flat, you know, like let's say a pancake. I the earth is a pancake. Yeah. The Bible says it's it's a circle. Right. That they don't want to see the Hebrew as you're pointing out that it really means sphere. And but then four corners of the earth so there's it's it's a square rectangle. So you can't have it both ways. Yeah. Yeah. And he's going to gather his elect from the four corners of the earth. Right? Right. So he's a whole earth. And we're going north, south, east, west. Yeah. That's what it means. Okay. Yeah. Go to a flat earth. Okay. Here's your circle of the earth. You're conceding that in Isaiah. So find me the corner. Mhmm. Yeah. Well exactly. And you pointed out in his creation everything's spherical. A drop of little water, right? Yeah. And the atoms, everything's spherical. It's his motives, it's how he does it. By laws of gravity and stuff. There's no gravity as far as Earthers. Yeah. No gravity, she says. So I said, Well, go jump off the roof. Prove to me there's no gravity. Yeah. And she said, I don't even know what she said. I can't even Well, I you know, I watch Some reason why some believe the earth is being the water lifted. I watched a physicist on YouTube talk about how the flat earth is so wrong and but she said that it and I'll post a little segment of this on on the video, where the the disc, the flat disc has got to be flowing upward to cause us to stay on the earth but at the same time you then you have to have the sun and the moon moving at that same Continuously rate up. Not only that. And I've taken college level physics, orbital physics etc. So it's just like with your car. When you're accelerating your car you feel your body pushing back. G forces. But as soon as you then stabilize your speed, your velocity, you don't feel anything. It's like an elevator. It's just like an elevator. You feel it and you go. So for the earth to be flat earth, to be moving up to give us the 32 feet per second squared gravitational attraction on earth, it has to continuously accelerate forever, at So that acceleration in other words, we're going light speed now. Like a rocket. Because you have to keep accelerating to keep the same force of you standing on the earth. Continuously. Continuously. Now that takes a lot of faith. That a lot of gullibility. Yeah gullibility and I think that's that's a great word because unfortunately a lot of people who I'm we're talking about and talking to just seem to be so very gullible and not knowledgeable, which is sad. We're not calling you names. We're not calling you anything. It's just the the ideas that you're you're buying. It's like the snake oil, you know, it's gonna that that guy who comes in a little cart and is gonna t t try to sell you something. Some are just deceived and some are able to have some discernment and say no I know what this is this is is trickery this is snake oil and it's not real it's not gonna I'm not going to spend my last dime on something that is not going to grow my hair back. I'm sorry. Maybe I did that last time but I learned. I learned that it's not real. It's not true. They mostly agree, though, that gravity does not exist and that the observations we normally attribute to gravity come instead from the upward acceleration of the flat earth. As a consequence, the apparent gravitational acceleration is the same everywhere on Earth. I explained some weeks ago that this is in conflict with evidence. We know that the gravitational acceleration is most definitely not the same everywhere on Earth. The idea that gravity is due to upward acceleration also causes other problems. For example, you have to assume that the moon and the sun accelerate along with the flat Earth, so we don't just run into them. That's an ad hoc assumption which disfavors the flat earth hypothesis against models where the orbits of the moon and the sun can be calculated from the gravitational law. But that's not the only problem. You also have to get the moon and the sun to somehow circle around over the disk to explain day and night and the phases of the moon. To get the day night cycle to be noticeable, you have to shrink the sun and move it closer to the earth. You also have to somehow get the radiation of the sun to be directional. That's many more ad hoc assumptions. But even with those assumptions, the size of the sun will change during the day more than we observe. And no one has ever successfully predicted solar eclipses on a flat earth or calculated the observed motions of the planets. The bottom line is, it's not easy to improve on today's scientific standard. It was for good reasons that the hypothesis of a flat earth was abandoned more than two thousand years ago. The mission to go out to scoop up comet tail dust and everything else you use, You fly the spacecraft around the earth a couple times to get a gravity boost. Is a gravity boost from the gravity of the earth. It is irrefutable, tested in a thousand different ways, that the force of gravity is the mass times the radius squared. So you have gravity. The mass of your body has gravity. Mass of my body has gravity. It's insignificant compared to the mass of the Earth. But if you took two people, you and Rob, went into space and you launched yourselves perfectly parallel to each other. And as soon as you got away from the gravity of the Earth, this is a fact that even the space program realized because they would eject waste material from the Apollo craft. So it's ejecting and it's going to go out and they're thinking it's just going to bye bye. But then because it didn't eject with enough escape velocity for the mass of the spacecraft, the mass of the spacecraft drew that stuff back. So that now it's surrounded by its own waste. And the same thing would happen with you and Rob. You would be at such a distance, but you're not far enough, your sphere of influence of your gravitational attraction is still with each other. So over time you would come together. Even though because of gravity that we don't understand but we can measure it. We know it's been tested million times in everything. That your two masses attract each other through forces that only God knows how it is. And the same thing is true for the mass of the earth. We we know why we are weighing what we are at 32 feet per minute squared is the gravitational attraction of the mass of the earth. Interesting. Fascinating. The King James version only cult, they are to Christianity as, well, flat earthers are to science. And if you've ever run into flat earther now, recently, by the way, was rebuked for being a heliocentric sun worshiping idolater because I don't believe the earth is flat. No. I don't believe the earth is flat at all. And so, yeah, instead of going, why does he not KJV only and he doesn't believe in the flat earth? Click. I'm unsubscribing, Roseboro. I know I can see the comments coming already. And I'm just recording the episode right now you know, but as, you're watching this as in its final form. All of that being said, if you've ever seen the Netflix, documentary Behind the Curve, it is well worth the watch. And I'm not gonna play out portions of the video. I'll just reference this, and we'll put a link to it down below. And the name of it is Behind the Curve Confirmation Bias and Flat Earthers. It's a very fascinating, it's a fascinating documentary because, at the end of the day, those who subscribe to the flat earth do not do so because of objective science. They subscribe to the flat earth because of the narrative surrounding the flat Earth. And the narrative is a conspiracy narrative. NASA and world governments have conspired together to suppress the truth of the flat Earth. And and so NASA is the bad guy. They are the, you know, they are the Illuminati. They are they are, you know, the the builder birds of of the solar system or something like I don't know how else to put it. But it everything is is wrapped up in the narrative. And so in the in the, in this portion, in this video, again, we'll put a link to it down below, behind the curve confirmation bias in the flat earth is. This is just a a short little segment, where, one of the major leaders within the flat earth movement on YouTube and podcasting and, you know, he always speaks at conferences and things like this. He talks about if they could only afford a certain kind of laser gyroscope, they would once and for all be able to prove that the earth is flat. And so he notes that if the earth is really a sphere, if you have a gyroscope, then every hour there's gonna be 15 degrees of drift on the gyroscope. And so the gyroscope they want is this this laser kind of gyroscope. And the flat earthers pitched in and somebody bought that for this guy, $20,000 gyroscope. And so he fired this thing up and guess what? Every hour there's 15 degrees of drift. And, and the thing is, is that once you buy into these conspiracy narratives, then there's no facts that can be presented to disprove, the narrative. And so when facts are presented that contradict the narrative, then other narratives are created for the purpose of basically destroying the authenticity or the veracity or the trustworthiness of whoever or whatever the facts are coming from. And so what this flat earther, that's this fellow right here. I don't remember his name. That's his his his his laser gyroscope, 15 degrees of drift. And here's a guy talking about it. And so what they found is that, yeah, they were getting 15 degrees of drift per hour. And so they came up with a narrative as to why that was the case. And their claim was that, that the gyroscope was being, influenced by, well, radiation and things from the firmament. And so they put it, they encased it in a particular box or a cylinder in order to limit the effects of that of those of those supposed rays, and it's it still kept drifting 15 degrees. And then they changed they changed the the substance. They changed it to is a I forget what the name of this thing was. Let's see here. You know, what do they call this? The bismuth chamber in order to eradicate the, the beams, and it still kept drifting 15 degrees. The reason it was drifting 15 degrees is because the earth is round. It's a sphere. That's the thing. It's a globe. So that's the reason why, you know, even a $20,000 laser, you know, what is what is the gizmo call again? Gyroscope. That's what it's called. Laser gyroscope, the reason it drifts 15 degrees is because the earth is a globe. But the thing is, is that once you buy into the narrative, no facts will ever overturn the narrative. No facts whatsoever. They know NASA's evil. They know the government is suppressing this. And so there's something wrong with the equipment when the equipment shows that the earth is a globe. Same thing with the Flat Earthers, not the Flat Earthers, the King James Version only folks. It's not about with them. It's not about, you know, reliable manuscripts or any kind of scholarly science in regards to getting at and piecing together using textual criticism what the original manuscript said. With them, it's all about the narrative. The conspiracy narrative among the King James version only folks is that, that, the Roman Catholic church in, cahoots with the Jesuits and others have set out to basically destroy, the word of God and and You know, and that's where I think I wanna bring my husband Rob in and we're gonna talk a little bit about the astronomical part of our discussion. So I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna seat? Nope. And he's gonna come right here and and and I'm gonna let let him explain some of the the parts that we're talking about. Okay.
About This Podcast
Be Not Deceived Podcast with Vicki Wiederrich
Be Not Deceived is a podcast dedicated to looking at Biblical truth and comparing it to the lies the world and the devil is telling to cause deception in the church and in our society at large in the present day. The devil is trying to deceive as many as possible, but God always wins!
